How to be fluent using self-teaching methods...?

Posted on March 14th, 2010 by cfz
  • Hello,

    First, let me tell you my current situation. I am very serious in learning the Japanese language, and I am commited to it every day. Everyday I do a Pimsleur Japanese lesson and take notes; I am now on lesson 16 in Unit I.
    I know all hiragana/katakana, and a few kanji. I also have basic knowledge of grammar. What I would like to ask all of you is: how can I become fluent in just one (or a maybe a couple) programs? I agree, Pimsleur is a very good program, but to break it down:

    Unit I - Beginning Beginner
    Unit II - Intermediate Beginner
    Unit III - Advance Beginner

    So in the end, you are still just a beginner. I need something more, another road to travel on after completing Pimsleur. I am ordering Essential Kanji (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0834802228/sr=8-1/qid=1150168757/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-3306534-3049547?%5Fencoding=UTF8) soon, so kanji is covered. But obviously, I need much more. I've heard Rosetta is good, but I've tried the demo, and hearing a word, clicking the matching picture, and having a chance of getting 1 out of 4 right, just doesn't seem to convincing to me.

    I can only resort to self-teaching methods since there are no local classes available. The bottom line is, what is the best method in your opinion to become fluent (or at least "fully" conversational) in Japanese? No matter how expensive it is, if I can benifit from it then I am not worried about price.

    Sorry for the long post, and thank you.


  • First things first. Essential Kanji is a pretty nice book, but trying to learn all the kanji from it is going to be a losing battle. Let me instead recommend Remembering the Kanji (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/4889960759/kanjibooks/102-1994321-8188134?%5Fencoding=UTF8&camp=1789&link%5Fcode=xm2) by James Heisig. You can check out a big chunk of the book for free here (http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/miscPublications/pdf/RK4/RK4-00.pdf). I strongly urge you to read the preface and introduction to see what it's all about. You can also read some of my statements about the book on this forum here (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23102) and here (http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23374).

    I don't think there's any way to become fluent in Japanese in a very short period of time. Expect it to take at least four years before you feel like you're really getting somewhere. Just don't give up. It'll pay off in the end. I've been studying Japanese for 8 years and I only started feeling fairly competent about 6 months ago, which was 4 months after I started living in Japan. But if you work consistently, you can probably get there faster than I did.

    I think the best way to beef up your vocabulary and become acquainted with different ways of expression is to read novels, but you need to have a solid vocabulary and grammar base before you can start doing that. Keep working at that Pimsleur and let us know when you finish.


  • Buntaro is absolutely correct. There is no substitute for personal interaction and practical application.


  • The important thing is learning Japanese is to use it. You must speak Japanese with another person. If you do not have any Japanese people available, find another student, and practice making sentences with them. Make a sentence, have them respond, then you respond, etc. Work together on formulating the sentences. You will find it time well spent.


  • Unless both the other student and yourself are creating sentences that make no sense or aren't used in Japanese. I say you try and make a Japanese friend you can speak with; be it in person, or over the internet.


  • Thank you for the book reccomendation! I fully understand that in no way I can be fluent in a short time, and I'm willing to do all I can with 5+ years, and much more after that. Yes, I do know all of the kana. I admit though, that I'm having some troubles with particles. I understand that "ha" and "ga" are like subject markers, and to also use "ha" when contrasting two items, but Pimsleur just through them in there, not mentioning once when and when not to use them...

    Thanks for the help!


  • This is pretty long, but an interesting and mostly relevant read.

    Learning a Language (http://www.english-learning.co.uk/voc.html#v1)


  • I noticed after the fact that you said you knew the kana. Beg your pardon.

    Wa and ga is a difficult distinction for everybody, including Japanese people. Entire books have been written on the matter. I think the most fundamental and useful explanation I can give is that ga marks the subject of a sentence, and wa marks the topic of a sentence. Someone who understands grammar well can probably easily relate to just what the subject is, but what the heck do I mean by "topic of a sentence?" There's no easy English equivalent, and this hearkens to the content of that article that Glenn posted. Let me give two pairs of example sentences.

    Watashi ga Tokyo e ikimashita.
    Watashi wa Tokyo e ikimashita.

    Chizu wo kaimashita ka.
    Chizu wa kaimawhita ka.

    All of the above sentences are grammatically correct, but wait - in the first pair, watashi is the subject, and in the second pair, chizu is the object, yet both can be followed by wa. This is because wa doesn't indicate a grammatical role so much as a topical role. Another way to think about wa/ga is that ga brings attention to the thing before ga, and wa brings attention to the thing after it. So maybe the first sentence would be the second half of this mini dialogue:
    Who went to Tokyo?
    I went to Tokyo.
    the second sentence would correspond to a question more like this
    What did you do?/Where did you go?
    I went to Tokyo.

    Similarly the third sentence simply asks "Did you buy a map?" whereas the fourth sentence brings map up as a topic so it has more of a feel like "Did you buy the map (that we were talking about before)?" or maybe "Speaking of maps, did you buy one?"


    Lastly because ga emphasizes the subject, it must follow who/what words, and the answer must be followed by ga as well:
    Dare ga Tokyo e ikimashita ka.
    Who went to Tokyo?
    Watashi ga Tokyo e ikimashita.
    I went to Tokyo.

    Nani ga yasui desu ka.
    What's cheap?
    Omizu ga yasui desu.
    Water is cheap.

    The same principle applies when a question word is the object of a sentence. In such cases you can't substitute wa for wo. I hope that this has been a little bit illuminating.







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